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Post by elchevalier on Jul 26, 2011 20:55:17 GMT -5
So, i haven't played any 8 bit era games lately, the last one was Shatterhand, which is a simple yet very effective game. I remember reading one of you saying that you can't go back to 8 bit games anymore. Feel free to ellaborate on that.
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Post by kog3100edw on Jul 27, 2011 2:33:41 GMT -5
It wasn't me that said that, but I understand the difficulty. I like me some 8-bit games, and I can contextualise their creation (mechanics, graphics, sounds) into their proper 'era'...
But all of the above took such a GIANT leap in the 16-bit era. Much of that stuff just holds up because it was enough colors, enough musicality (in the chips and redbook where applicable), and enough gameplay (hate that word) innovation to where they can still strongly resemble similar genres made today. We STILL like our Nintendo DS games, our XBLA/PSN downloaded reissues or 'retro-styled' games. Sonic 2 isn't a total disconnect from Sonic 4 chapter 1 or even the side-on parts of Sonic Colors.
I think there was just such huge jump up to 16-bit-- pixel-y or not, you can see so many of the elements we still salivate over... particulary the so-called hardcore gamers. Strider still rocks pretty hard, plays like a dream. Rondo of Blood or Bloodlines still has creepasaurus music and awesome monster bosses. Thunder Force music kicks ass. You can see the musculature on the dinosaurs in Strider or a werewolf boss in Castlevania. Jammin chords from Technosoft recognisably ape electric guitars. These are the sorts of things we improve on in every platform era, but this is where it got 'recognisable'.
I just think the 'art' and appeal really exploded in 16-bit and still has echoes in what we consider cool aspects of todays games. I mean look at the difference in a 16-bit sprite with a dozen gradated colors on it versus an 8-bit one with three colors. So much easier on the eyes, and most aspects of 16-bit and later games are just like that.
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Post by ECM on Jul 27, 2011 12:19:36 GMT -5
It's pretty simple for me, and sorta echoes what KoG is saying: the gameplay (there's that word, KoG, suffer like G did!) is, generally, lightyears better simply by virtue of the fact that the hardware allows games to be that much more complex and rich on all levels.
There is also the very, very key point that 16-bit was, essentially, the apex of 2D game design. After honing their craft on the Atari through NES (broadly-speaking) devs took everything they learned on the 16-color, low sprite, slow CPU proving grounds, and took their craft to the next level w/ 16-bit. It's still my favorite era of games and I'm still going back to them regularly because, frankly, that was the peak of gaming for me and it's been a bumpy ride ever since.
While I do have fond memories of any number of 8-bit games, I have a very hard time playing them these days if only because most of them are very, very simple and/or very, very unforgiving because difficulty often substituted for various hardware limitations. So instead of, say, filling the screen w/ a horde of ninja commandos in Ninja Gaiden, and fighting your way out w/ panache and verve, utilizing precise, pinpoint, controls all afforded by a much faster CPU, you get that stupid fucking bird knocking you into a pit 9000 times because the hardware simply couldn't provide a horde of ninja commandos and so the designers had to come up with some other way to engage you and give you your money's worth.
In a nuthshell: when all you have is a '75 Dodge Dart, you aren't going to be able to do nearly the types of things you could in a '11 Lancer EVO IX. (We could extend this analogy to post-16-bit systems, but as the complexity goes up, so does the difficulty in controlling such things, so it'd er like going from a car (2D) to a space shuttle (3D), which introduces all manner of its own problems and issues.)
And, sure, I ate it up at the time but, then, we didn't know any better! Now, though, it's just kinda not a lot of fun when you're getting raped by one of those damn birds in Ninja Gaiden because it requires timing that most of us just don't have the patience to deal w/ anymore, and the overall package just isn't nearly as fun because it's really all so very basic and banal.
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Post by kog3100edw on Jul 27, 2011 13:54:46 GMT -5
I think even in certain 2D game genres there were improvements made after the 16-bit era... at the moment I'm thinking STGs/shmups, which on the Genesis/SNES/PCE are certainly very playable but didn't become the smooth flicker-free experience until the following generation. BUT. The improvement was incremental compared to the leap, on all fronts, from 8 to 16 bit.
So ditto on all the stuff ECM brings up, the non-aesthetic aspects. There's been so-called improvements since then, but it amounts either to increased complexity usually tied to a more complicated controller, or conveniences like actual saves as opposed to passwords.
Its a little different discussion and so probably not for THIS thread, but as horsepower has gone up, and devs find it necessary to increase complexity we find control going awry and more problems and complications with games nowadays. When you bought a game back then, THAT was your game. Sometimes they had a weird bug or unexpected glitch. They didn't need frequent patches or lame explanations from developers about time and budget constraints.
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Post by ECM on Jul 27, 2011 13:57:59 GMT -5
I agree mostly, but I was talking about 16-bit broadly, including things like CPS-2, Toaplan's 16-bit hardware, etc. which, in my opinion, were at least as good as today's shooters...*insert broken record spiel about too much hurricane-force danmaku!*
Otherwise, we're in complete, across-the-board, agreement (which probably means my dogs and cat are getting along very amiably.)
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Post by kog3100edw on Jul 27, 2011 15:47:04 GMT -5
We're in agreement.
I sense a momentary universe-spanning alignment that can only signal THE END OF ALL THINGS!
Hear the click?
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CHI
Stripling
The Benchmeister General
In Poland, brick hit you!
Posts: 70
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Post by CHI on Jul 28, 2011 13:45:19 GMT -5
As long as I get my lil' buddies, I don't care how many bits there are.
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Post by kog3100edw on Jul 28, 2011 18:44:55 GMT -5
Should I be disturbed by this 'lil' buddies' reference.
I don't know what those are.
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Post by ECM on Jul 28, 2011 19:05:24 GMT -5
Little buddies generally mean SD.
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Post by elchevalier on Jul 31, 2011 15:58:16 GMT -5
I agree about the 16 bit era polishing the experience a lot more. Now, let us start talking about actual 8 bit games. One of my favorites, even if it's a bit easy, it's the one i like the most from this franchise:
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Post by ECM on Jul 31, 2011 16:05:58 GMT -5
Yeah, it's fun, but Splatterhouse 3 is still my fav.
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Post by kog3100edw on Aug 1, 2011 11:32:41 GMT -5
'SD'= 'lil buddies'.
As in super-deformed? The old term for 'chibi'?
Whatta hell? I feel like everyone is talking English but that only half my neurons are firing.
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Post by ECM on Aug 1, 2011 21:07:54 GMT -5
I'm talkin' jive, yo.
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Post by elchevalier on Aug 2, 2011 3:10:12 GMT -5
I'm sure most people here prefer the TG version, but this one is damn fine too.
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Post by runinruder on Aug 2, 2011 3:51:54 GMT -5
I'll note that I've played only the Turbo version, but the problem I have with Jackie Chan is that it's brilliant for two levels and then slips after that. The third stage goes from a really tedious platforming ascent to a sloppy rapids ride, and the fifth is drawn out to an annoying degree. The pink cyclops boss in Stage 4 is awesome, however, and the game is worth playing because the good stuff is really good (the first two boards, the bonus games, a couple of the tunes, the cyclops, some parts of Stage 5, minor touches like the silhouette combat).
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